Curse

Mental Leteci · May 28, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I took blood spike as an example. But seriously,if ANet wanted to include some of old skills in factions as well couldn't they just put those same skills into factions campaign? Someone said to me that duplicate skills is a benefit for people who have both campaign,I mean lol? What do I get with double Tigers Fury? Are there any news about new updates? Relic maps are bugged for 3 days now...

makosi · May 29, 2006, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I think that spirits shouldn't trigger Soul Reaping. Do spirits even have souls to reap? :S

While the necros enjoy a swift influx of energy, the opposing infuser <me> is using 13 energy infuses and ~7 energy orisons as a result of QZ. Sure, you can kill the ranger spirit spammer but its tough with 5 N/Mo and an infuser topping up health bars with their constant energy gains.

Ado · May 31, 2006, 10:24 AM // 10:24

IMO there are 2 reasons why Anet can't or is not willing to nerf something.

1. fear of losing players (just look at the iwaynerf 2 months ago, HA was virtually empty the whole day for over 2 weeks).

2. nerfing a skill can balance pvp but inbalance pve.

Often a nerf/buff makes half the GW players happy and the other half unhappy. Take Dwanya's Kiss for instance, this skill will be buffed in the coming week. People (myself included) who play in a monkbacklined build will be happy about it. Iway and ViM players most likely will be unhappy about it, although I don't see them complain so much about things

IWAY and necro-spike are the biggest problem in HA atm. The fact that those 2 builds are greatly overused is what annoys a lot of players. The builds are either hated or loved. To nerf or not to nerf, that's the dilemma for Anet. Many players will be unhappy, notmatter what they decide. (plz dont discuss if they require skill or not, it'll make the thread go off-topic)

allience · May 31, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

I think that spirits shouldn't trigger Soul Reaping. Do spirits even have souls to reap? :S

While the necros enjoy a swift influx of energy, the opposing infuser <me> is using 13 energy infuses and ~7 energy orisons as a result of QZ. Sure, you can kill the ranger spirit spammer but its tough with 5 N/Mo and an infuser topping up health bars with their constant energy gains.

ok and WHY do u have to be a mo/me to infuse? do u really think it's the only way infusing is possible? u ever heard of interrupts for the spikers?

@ado, plz don't saw iway is overpowed at the moment. jeez they are easy to beat now, unless ur monks are just bad. the only place iway can do a good job is at relic runs IF they run apostacy necro.

makosi · May 31, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

ok and WHY do u have to be a mo/me to infuse? do u really think it's the only way infusing is possible? u ever heard of interrupts for the spikers?

That's a good point, you can take a n/mo or E/mo to infuse and you can take a mesmer to use Cry of Frustration on the Shadow Strikes etc. But, suppose your build hasn't got room for these luxuries? There would come a point where you had so much defense and healing that you did little dmg. That would imply that today, since the FoTM is necro spiking, that you must have a mesmer. Yes, rangers can interrupt but only one at a time. I agree that the experienced player must adapt to the current circumstances but only to a certain extent.

pah01 · May 31, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

ok and WHY do u have to be a mo/me to infuse? do u really think it's the only way infusing is possible? u ever heard of interrupts for the spikers?

@ado, plz don't saw iway is overpowed at the moment. jeez they are easy to beat now, unless ur monks are just bad. the only place iway can do a good job is at relic runs IF they run apostacy necro.

Infusing requires you to think like a monk and go highly defensive. You cannot infuse and do any other job well. And against any kind of spike you cant do anything else since your entire attention will go into infusing. Since having a second monk that can actually heal reasonable well against any other sort of team you do really want a primary monk for the divine favour bonus.
You cant expect a character thats offensive to infuse.

Interrupts are needed.

Iway isnt overpowered true. Easy to beat except if you have bad monks.
Blaming the monks is stupid and nooby.

As we all know warriors have the higest DPS in the game, from ensigns famous thread - frenzied(tigers fury for iway) warriors can do 2400 DPM. Now you expect your monks to Heal 10,000 unmitigated damage per minute - chances are if you lost to iway your warder made a mistake or got his ward interrupted or your team didnt wand the trappers or your warrior didnt kill the spirits especially edge or Natures renewal.

Sam

Mental Leteci · May 31, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Or they ran order of apostasy and interrupted your warder.

tomcruisejr · May 31, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

or took damage and never kited?

icantthinkofonerightnow · May 31, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Or your Mesmers can't shutdown the Necros, which don't even have hex removal.

phasola · May 31, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

guess Anet run out of insipration and just doubled skills, because it was way too hard to just make shadow strike a core skill...

allience · May 31, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by pah01

Infusing requires you to think like a monk and go highly defensive. You cannot infuse and do any other job well. And against any kind of spike you cant do anything else since your entire attention will go into infusing. Since having a second monk that can actually heal reasonable well against any other sort of team you do really want a primary monk for the divine favour bonus.
You cant expect a character thats offensive to infuse.

Interrupts are needed.

Iway isnt overpowered true. Easy to beat except if you have bad monks.
Blaming the monks is stupid and nooby.

As we all know warriors have the higest DPS in the game, from ensigns famous thread - frenzied(tigers fury for iway) warriors can do 2400 DPM. Now you expect your monks to Heal 10,000 unmitigated damage per minute - chances are if you lost to iway your warder made a mistake or got his ward interrupted or your team didnt wand the trappers or your warrior didnt kill the spirits especially edge or Natures renewal.
Sam

i'm not expecting a monk to Heal 10,000. that's why you have the prot monk for, dmg reduction. if you lose to iway, somebody in ur team isn't doing his job. iway is not overpowered anymore. if you team won't wand trappers or if your team won't kill spirits or if your warder was not protted, that is YOUR team's bad play and poor teamwork.
they only map iway stands a chance is relic runs and a good iway can win at halls too with a good strategy and a lot of LUCK.

i do expect an 'offensive char' to infuse IF the team setup allows it. clearly it's won't be the regular 3 monks/5 offensive chars. if you can't figure out such a build, it's ur problem but don't go saying it's impossible.

@makosi
what do you mean the build hasn't got room for these luxuries? if you see 60% of the teams in HA being iway or blood spike, common sense tells to come up with a build that counters it. therefore, you make room for the skills required to counter such builds. if you insist on running a build that has no defense against popular builds, you shouldn't say they're overpowered.

Ado · May 31, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

@ado, plz don't saw iway is overpowed at the moment. jeez they are easy to beat now, unless ur monks are just bad. the only place iway can do a good job is at relic runs IF they run apostacy necro.

I didn't say iway is overpowered. I said it's overused.

luilui · Jun 01, 2006, 03:13 PM // 15:13

There will always be some builds that's overpowered, and as soon as ppl realise them, they'll(the players) exploit them(the builds). So there will always overused builds.In that sense there's not much anet can do about overpowered or overused builds (normally they r the same, as ppl exploit overpowered builds then become overused), there's always some of them and those casual players will always play them as they can not be creative.

The top players will create their own build where the average players will just copy. After the average players practice a specific build several times they'll be good at it and can perform reasonably well. In this sense these overused build will cause problems for good teams. I think that's 90% of the time ture.

In HA, it's more likely to face a popular build then creative build just becoz there are more average players than good players, and average players normally run those popular builds. For those average players they'll be busy thinking how to beat those popular builds, and they'll be happy when they do.
However for those good players they can beat all those builds, but they'll be bored after seeing the same lame builds OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER A-FKING-GAIN, and they'll be more frustrated if they lose to these lame builds becoz of a silly mistake or lag or .... etc which overall makes HA less enjoyable for good players.

MAYBE anet shouldnt foucs on nerfing certain builds, but increase the variation of the maps in HA and force the teams to be more flexible.

Let me suggest maybe anet can introduce maps with different conditions like in "the deep" into HA, which forces teams to have more variation, i.e. a build with a lot of casters will suffer a lot in the exhaustion room or maybe a single map with mix of conditions so teams need be more tactical at where they fight (but they'll have to do something to stop ppl camping in a specific room).

--------------------

Back to the current situation, imo blood spike should be nerfed but not becoz they r overpowered, but becoz of they r over-holding-powered.
U cant get rid of all the overpowered builds, but they should not have holding power.

JR · Jun 01, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by luilui

MAYBE anet shouldnt foucs on nerfing certain builds, but increase the variation of the maps in HA and force the teams to be more flexible.

+10 e-street creds to you Sir.

art_ · Jun 01, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

+10 e-street creds to you Sir.

JR, let us in on your infinite wisdom. I want to hear the JR vision for HA. (:

Mental Leteci · Jun 01, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

That's what I said as well. Bringing back 6-way Burrial,3-way Broken and 6-way Scarred would make this game balanced once again.

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Jun 01, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

AFAIK Anet does not like the idea of spiking at all. They think it takes away from tactics and diversity in the arenas.

That's why we have Shelter + Union now. Even if all 8 enemies spike 1 target successfully with 1 hit, that person still lives.

I don't get why there aren't more Ritualists floating around in HA.

Divineshadows · Jun 01, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofia Sofia Sofia

I don't get why there aren't more Ritualists floating around in HA.

Why would you want to bring a ritualist that will feed enemy blood or FOC spikers even more energy from your own spirits? Is it not already enough work to prevent their spirits from being layed while simultaneous interrupting their spikes and working in your own adrenal spikes at times? Why bring a character that just makes that job harder?

Mental Leteci · Jun 01, 2006, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Well,for now on I don't care what ANet will try to do. I'm going to play exploited builds with the others and then we will see if it will be nerfed or not. When HA becomes place of 2-3 different builds they might even change something.
So hint for all of you: go with the easy way

audioaxes · Jun 02, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I will concur with one sentiment of Leteci's post; Remove the god damn dual skills Anet KPLEASE. Blood Spike with both Shadow Strike and Lifebane Strike is a bit retarded, and it just makes no sense to keep the doppel skills in anyway.

i agree something needs to be nerfed but im not sure that will change much, ive seen many good bloodspikes just use shadow and vamp
shadow is already 8 second recharge and with qz it recharges fast enough to pressure down an infusers energy
the root of the problem is the spirit spam, most notably qz and ritualist spirits
giving necros bottomless energy
the steps required to modify a given build to counter a good bloodspike with a given build far exceed what you ever needed to do to keep up against a good iway when it was its peak